# of Annual Hours Spent in Sales/Business Development

# of Annual Hours Spent in Sales/Business Development

5 Ways to Generate Leads for Your Firm

5 Ways to Generate Leads for Your Firm

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When it comes to generating leads, it’s very important to have multiple lead sources. Join us for ideas on how to generate more leads, tips on how to maximize efficiency with the systems you already have in place, and how to develop a strategy depending on how you’re generating leads.

In this video, you’ll learn:

    • 5 ways to generate leads for your firm
    • The value of strong relationships with existing clients as a path to more leads
    • How to leverage the great work you’ve done to bring in more work
    • Strategies to help you take advantage of multi-channel lead generation

Selling Professional Services: How to Scale Beyond Referral Only Leads

Selling Professional Services: How to Scale Beyond Referral Only Leads

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No matter how strong your network is, you need to get to a point where you have a commercial sales engine. To do that, you need to understand the two types of sales leaders.

Discover the two types of sales leaders, how to build your own sales playbook based on the environment you’re in, and what to watch out for when hiring sales talent.

In this video, you’ll also learn:

    • The difference between builders and runners in sales
    • How to build a fundamental sales playbook for your firm
    • Why you need a prospecting methodology
    • How to manage your sales opportunities

Episode 120 – How a Consulting Firm Embraced Trial and Error When Building a Sales Team – Member Case by Scott Arias

Building a sales team inside of a consulting firm is hard. However, it is a requirement if a firm is going to scale beyond a Founder-led lifestyle business. Adding to the difficulty, is the need to go through an expensive and time-consuming trial and error period. It takes patience and many experiments before a firm figures out what works for them.


Greg Alexander [00:00:15] Welcome to the Pro Serv podcast with Collective 54, a podcast for leaders of thriving boutique professional services firms. If you’re not familiar with Collective 54, with the first mastermind community dedicated entirely to the unique needs of leaders of boutique pro firms. My name is Greg Alexander. I’m the founder and I’m going to be your host today. On this episode, we’re going to talk about redefining business development. A lot of us are in the process of re-engineering how we go to market, so to speak, and this is going to be a timely topic. We’ve got a great role model with as someone who’s just recently done this successfully with some outstanding results. His name is Scott Arias. Scott, great to see you. Welcome to the show. And please introduce yourself. 

Scott Arias [00:01:04] Yeah. Great guy. Great meeting you. And. My name is Scott Arias. I am the founder and the CEO of a consulting company, and we’re a boutique Professional services. It basically provides services company that works for the government. 

Greg Alexander [00:01:27] Okay. And tell me a little bit more about the types of services that you provide. 

Scott Arias [00:01:33] We have four main services. The first one is pre-construction services. That’s plan schedules, that type of thing. The second one is security services. We provide field staff for embassies and actually they’re kind of interesting. We got into Amazon nationally, companies like that. And then the the third section is skilled staffing. We we don’t only do the pre-construction plans, but we staff the management positions on a job. And the fourth sector is training. And it kind of goes back to my history because I was a college professor once in my past life. 

Greg Alexander [00:02:13] Okay, very good. So we’re going to talk about redefining business development. And the team gave me some numbers today about your business. And I’m going to go over them with you because they’re absolutely mind blowing. And I want to hear how you did this. So I understand that you added almost 100 new clients in 2022. Is that correct? 

Scott Arias [00:02:31] That’s correct. 99. 

Greg Alexander [00:02:32] Wow. My gosh. That’s amazing. You’re up over 5000 clients now and you’re getting about 80% of your business from repeat purchases. Is that also correct? 

Scott Arias [00:02:43] That is correct. Yeah. 

Greg Alexander [00:02:44] I mean, so those numbers would suggest, you know, what you’re doing in the business development space. So I understand that you recently kind of redefined it. So maybe we can do a little before and after. Let’s start with the way you used to do it. Tell me about the changes that you’ve implemented and tell me about the way you’re doing it now. 

Scott Arias [00:03:03] Well, you know, when I started the company, I you know, it was just me. So I decided, you know what? I’m going to start, you know, emailing people directly. You know, so I, I found a government website that publishes all the solicitations for the U.S. government on federal construction projects. So I just started emailing about 50 people a day. And then so I did that. I say 50. But then after the first month, I didn’t get anything, so I doubled that. And then I went to next month, didn’t get anything, so I doubled that. And then it took me nine months to get my very first client and I was actually on the verge of quitting. Wow. And and so I got my first client and it was just email campaigns, essentially, you know, to find work. And that evolved over time in the first five years, you know, And it’s not you know, people ask me all the time, well, how did you come up with, like your core values that kind of lead to the success of your company? And I say, well, I didn’t just sit down and write them. It was just kind of who we were at that point. So after about six years in the company, I just, you know, I asked myself what after I visited iOS presentation Entrepreneur Operating Systems, and I thought, what are what are we really do that bring clients to us? And then we keep clients. And so we developed these three core values. We call them RUG. It stands for Do the right thing, have urgency and be the gold standard, because that’s what we were, you know, we did things in urgency. We’d get it done overnight. We stay up all night long. We always did excellent work to help the contractor and we always did the right thing. If we felt like we made a mistake, we owned up to it. And then with that kind of formula, we not only just, you know, got new clients, we kept the existing clientele. And when I say 80, it’s probably close to probably over 90 because many of our services are repeat services, because they get done with the job and then they get another project. Yep. 

Greg Alexander [00:05:21] Okay. And then this this redefining of business development in particular, meaning sales and marketing. The team explained to me that you experimented with different approaches and you recently went through some kind of redesign. Could you share a little bit of that with us? 

Scott Arias [00:05:37] Well, you know, I got we got to a point where our organization grew from me to probably about 120 people. 

Greg Alexander [00:05:44] Wow. 

Scott Arias [00:05:45] And and so, you know, we had played obviously, I was the business development. My background was I was a Navy recruiter. So I was used to being an aggressive salesperson, you know, And then that kind of transition away from me because I had to develop bigger relationships. So I had a somebody manage that process. So we thought at first, well, you know what? Maybe we don’t know what we’re doing and we should go out and get help. So we went and got, you know, we searched around for a company that would help with the business development and the marketing piece. We landed on a marketing company that actually does a pretty good job for us. Took a lot of headache off my shoulders. But the business development sector, after we went through it, we spent about six months. We realized that if we were better at it than they were and we knew what we were doing, we went through trial and error. We went through the school of hard knocks, so we knew what worked and we knew it did work. We knew where the target audience is, where we knew we knew our customer profile. So through that experience we realized, man, we look, we know a lot more than we give ourselves credit for. So we took that information and we separate marketing and sales. We outsource a portion of marketing. We do a combination of email campaigns, phones. You know, a lot of people think phone is dead, you know, but in the construction space, it’s not. So we we contact people. We have a person dedicated it all, all day long, every day to get us pre-qualified with different contractors via phone. And then we have two salespeople that are kind of going back to the other piece of marketing. My son is actually in charge of that sector. And he does the, you know, the filter and the thoughts and and sees who’s was awarded the jobs and gives hot leads and warm leads to our sales team and then they follow up and we have a couple of people who do do sales and I don’t really like to call sales because it has a bad connotation. But you know, the business development sector because we know once we get them in the door, our staff is going to knock it out of the park. And, you know, you can’t you can’t have a good business development and you can’t sell something unless your unless you’re really selling something of value. And that’s really what spring brings more work to us. 

Greg Alexander [00:08:21] You know, for those that are listening out there, something about Scotts business that’s a little different but makes business development more challenging, in my opinion, is that, you know, the government awards contracts and this is information that’s available for anybody to go find. So his process is to see, you know, who got the contracts and then reach out to those people and try to, you know, sell his services into those existing contracts. The problem with that is, a what makes it so hard is that everybody can see it. So it’s super competitive. I mean, there’s all kinds of companies sending emails and telephone calls because, you know, once you tell somebody, hey, there’s this $100 million project that just got funded and they need a company that can do X, Y, Z, and everybody that’s in that space is all over that and they flood them. So the level of difficulty is higher, in my view, in that setting. Now it is nice that, you know, there’s existing business to go after. You don’t have to kind of manufacture your own business, but it does take, you know, quite a ability to execute, to win. In other words, beat the bad guys. Scott Did I describe that correctly? And is there anything more to that process that’s that’s worth discussing? 

Scott Arias [00:09:30] Well, you know, you’re you’re right about our field portion of a reconstruction portion. And but for security services and training, it’s a lot more like we’re developing that. We’re work responsible. Well, our our business developing process is not creating a need. It’s the need exists. It’s just fulfilling that need. Well, in the training space, the security space, we have to go out there and get it. And that’s a that’s a little more difficult. And honestly, we struggled with that because it was out of what we were used to. But I think we’ve got a good process in place now. 

Greg Alexander [00:10:06] Okay. You mentioned you went through this trial and error period. How long did that last? And and when did you know you really hit on the winning formula? 

Scott Arias [00:10:18] Well, I believe that process equals success. So you can’t. And so we constantly go through an evolution. We get a process in place. We execute. We come back and look at the process. And I’m talking about every quarter, you know, we’re giving now our decision may be, hey, it doesn’t make sense to change anything. We have enough time or maybe we know this doesn’t work and we go see. And so it’s a constant evolution of making your process bigger, better every time. And then when you’re companies growing like me or my company went from me and I made $7,000 my first year. So we’re going to be about 22 million this year. Wow. I mean, that’s that. And it went from me to 180 some other people now. So if we’re going to sustain that kind of growth, we I always tell people last year was a bad year for us. We made we only grew 27%. And and the truth is that we’re just hitting that every every year. We just continue to just just expand our services and do more and get more clientele and. Definitely can’t just sit back and wait for people to come to you. Yeah. 

Greg Alexander [00:11:36] You know, your your business story going from 7000 to 22 million, one person to 180 people is an amazing and inspirational business story. But you and I had a chance to chat and I learned a little bit about your personal story, particularly your military story. And that was equally, if not more so, inspiring. Would you mind sharing with our community a little bit more about your personal story and and how you how you went from this military career to this business career and the things that you deployed in your business career that you may have learned in your military career that has resulted in all of this success. 

Scott Arias [00:12:14] Well, I’m going to make a very long story very short. Okay. So unlike you do, Greg. No, I’m just joking. But I. I’ll play it back. Yeah, I, I so I, I grew up in Albuquerque, New Mexico, and my brother was in the Navy, so I joined the Navy. And the Navy fit me well. You know, I’m a little bit OCD, and so the military fit me well. The way they make amends, the way they fill their clothes. Anyhow, so I did multiple tours, went to then did a recruiting tour, did a tour at Camp David, did a tour in the Middle East during Operation Iraqi Freedom. Operation Enduring Freedom. So about my eight year mark. After I was promoted Chief Petty Officer, I got hit by a car head on. I was riding a motorcycle. My foot was was wasn’t severed, but it was a bag of bones. Not to be graphic or anything, but so they they basically took my leg that night. And then they I had went through another of what, four surgeries, ah, spent three months recovering and went back for another two surgeries, and I spent 11 months recovering. Ultimately, what Rig-i returned, returned me back to active duty service, was Carl Brashear, which is the guy from Man of Honor. If you’ve ever seen a movie with De Niro, he was the guy they made the story about. Very, very inspirational man. And then also Senator Trent Lott, which I was a senator from Mississippi. So they they interceded because the Navy told me no. And I and then after talking with Karl, I decided, you know, there’s another avenue, and that’s what I took. And so that taught me a very valuable lesson. Number one, persistence pay pays off. So when I was going through nine months of trying to find a client, I also remember the 11 months I recovered from losing my leg and go through prescription drug addiction. So, you know, that’s you know, so that was a very, very good lesson for me. Ultimately, I returned Baghdad to duty and went to the Middle East. Then, after being there for three years, I fell through an Iraqi oil platform, a bust up my leg pretty good, and then medevacked back to Walter Reed. And that ended my career. And then I went through multiple different I went through three different companies after I got out and seeking for purpose, seeking to do something greater than to make money, although money’s good, you know. So so I ultimately landed on opening my own company, and. And the rest is history. 

Greg Alexander [00:14:59] Yeah. Well, thank you for sharing that. God bless you for everything that you’ve done. It’s a great, great, great story. We’re so lucky to have someone like you in our community. I can’t wait for the member Q&A session. I’m sure they’re going to have lots of questions. But, you know, starting these firms is hard. It’s not nearly as hard as what you’ve been through personally. And but it’s great to see somebody like yourself being able to transition to a business career and not just go to work with somebody else, but start their own company and knock it out of the park. I mean, from 0 to 22 million in a short time period is pretty amazing. So again, on behalf of all the members, thanks for being here today. Thanks for sharing your story and thanks for being part of our tribe. 

Scott Arias [00:15:38] Sounds great. Great. Have a good day. 

Greg Alexander [00:15:40] Okay. All right. Couple of calls to action for those that are listening. If you’re a member, be sure to attend the Friday Q&A session with Scott. You can ask your questions directly to him. I think you’re going to get some value out of that. For those that are also running their business on EOS, like Scott is. We wrote an EOC Collective 54 integration plan. It helps you customize EOC to the unique challenges of running a boutique process firms to check that out. And then also, you know, if you’re interested in redefining your business development process, as Scott has done, a couple of templates in the resource center and in the companion courses, look for the marketing strategy template, the sales strategy template, and the account plan template. So hopefully that’s helpful. If you’re not a member and you want to meet really interesting people like Scott, consider joining. Go to collective 54 com fill out the contact us form and somebody will get in contact with you. We’re not quite ready to join, but you want to consume some great content. Subscribe to collect 54 insights and you’ll get three things every week. Monday you get a blog, Wednesday you get a podcast, and Friday you get a chart. Okay, So thanks for tuning in and listening. And until next time, good luck as you try to grow, scale and exit your firm.

Episode 70 – How a Consulting Firm Invested Successfully in Business Development Management

Member case with Ken Yager

As a firm scales, it must make a significant change to its sales strategy. On this episode, we interview Ken Yager of Newpoint Advisors to understand how he invested in business development management, coaching, and training to scale his firm.


Greg Alexander [00:00:15] Welcome to the Boutique with Collective 54 for a podcast for founders and leaders of boutique professional services firms. For those that don’t know us, Collective 54 is the first mastermind community to help you grow, scale and exit your firm bigger and faster. 

My name’s Greg Alexander. I’m the founder, and I’ll be your host today. And on this episode, we’re going to talk about business development during the scale stage, and we’re going to do so with one of our members, Ken Yager. Ken, welcome to the show. And would you please introduce yourself? 

Ken Yager [00:00:50] Thanks, Greg. Glad to be here. I’m Ken Yager. I’m the founder of New Point. We are a nine-year-old turnaround consulting firm exclusively focused on small, distressed companies trying to address a problem in our industry, which was that it was unaddressed – that problems with small companies were unaddressable by the industry structure that we were in. 

Greg Alexander [00:01:11] Interesting. So so who hires you? Is it the banks that are doing the work out or how? How does it work? 

Ken Yager [00:01:18] You’reu right to the point? I like that, yes, our industry is a two step sort of thing. We have to have it. We tend to work off referrals. Lenders will send us to companies and companies will hire us, and then we have to find a balance where we’re representing all parties. Okay. 

Greg Alexander [00:01:34] So can I have to tell you the only member that I’ve met so far that I hope I never do business with? Because I’d only do business wtih youyou if I were in trouble? 

Ken Yager [00:01:42] Yeah, exactly. You don’t want to see me darken your door. But and I never wish our services on anyone, but we’re there when you need us. 

Balancing new and existing clients

Greg Alexander [00:01:49] Yeah, that’s a good point. OK. So we were talking about business development, which is a very particular thing. Those two words during the scale stage. And I’ll set this up briefly and then I’ll ask Ken some questions. So when you’re a young firm – not like Ken, nine years into his journey- you don’t have any clients. So all of your business development efforts are spent on acquiring new accounts because you have to, as you establish yourself. When you enter the scale stage, which is typically somewhere between years six and tenor so life gets easier and it gets easier because you have happy clients. 

You’ve done work with them, they’re referring their friends, you’re getting some word of mouth. So the sales effort gets easier. It’s never as easy as you want it to be, but it’s easier than in the early days. However, it does require a change in the way that you sell because again, you have these clients that you can go back to and you can get expansion sales from them as opposed to going to new clients. 

Now, I’m not saying that you don’t need new clients. Of course, every boutique owner needs new clients, but the mix changes. Personally, I believe the mix should be about 80/20 at this stage, 80 percent from existing accounts and 20 percent from new accounts. Particularly if you can hold on to your clients for a while. Sometimes it doesn’t always work out that way. Maybe it’s 60/40, you know, existing to new. But the point here is it should be. The majority should be revenue from existing accounts as opposed to new accounts as you’re starting to scale. And that’s a good barometer. So let me start there with you., Ken. If you were to maybe speak in percentages in terms of mix, what’s your pie chart look like right now between revenue from existing accounts versus new accounts 

Ken Yager [00:03:38] It’sgoing to be 80 percent existing accounts. And of course, the twist here for us is that we are talking about referral sources, people who are sending us these potential new clients to work with. But yes, it’s really consistent. 

Greg Alexander [00:03:53] So in that scenario, a lender is your client and they – they’ll have a portfolio of loans. They hire you to help them with one situation that goes well. Next time they have that situation, you’re the first call. And I understanding that correctly, 

Ken Yager [00:04:07] That’s pretty close to it. Yes, it’s sometimes you have to live with a list of three, but if you’re sort of a favored son and you get an extra nudge into – into the crowd. All right. 

Investing in relationships

Greg Alexander [00:04:17] So when you think about your efforts as a leader of the organization and you’re going to direct your time, your people, your budget towards generating business, given the fact that it’s an 80/20 split for you. How do you invest in those existing relationships in order to grow them? 

Ken Yager [00:04:36] Well, it’s sort of a time management. It’s well, we like to teach everyone. Yes, definitely a time management skill, which is to be consistent and constant and not coming and going. Typical consultant things are to get real busy. Forget the client for a while. The referral sources then wake up one morning in a wee bit of a a panic and go back. Yeah, so we work very hard and making sure everyone knows this is a weekly exercise and this is how you intentionally fit it into your schedule with all your client duties. 

Greg Alexander [00:05:03] So it’s a weekly exercise. 

Ken Yager [00:05:05] Yeah, you know, it’s there are certain people you will touch for a whole quarter, but every week there’s someone you can be reaching out to on a list of people that you should be talking to. 

Greg Alexander [00:05:14] And you as a leader of the firm, how do you inspect or make sure that that’s happening because I love the frequency of that. And that’s probably a reason why you guys are doing so well, but that’s a lot. How do you make sure it’s happening? 

Ken Yager [00:05:27] We work also. Well, first off, we have a CRM system. We work off Zoho. We have a – we have retained a part time sales manager that helps coach everyone to make sure that they’re on that system. And then we constantly train people on how to use the system so they get past the awkwardness. We have a lot of professional service people who for years didn’t use a CRM, and now they’re using one. It’s a bit of a trick, to get used to it. 

Greg Alexander [00:05:53] Yeah, that is a new behavior for them to learn. I want to explore this part time sales manager. That’s an innovative approach. So what led you to that? 

Ken Yager [00:06:03] Well, we couldn’t afford a full time person for sure, not of the caliber we wanted. So part time is a way to sort of sip at it, if you will, and take that take as much as we can, but bring the professionalism at the same moment to people. So they kind of went -one of our teammates is struggling with the sales issue. They’re going to someone who they can really trust and feel like they’re a senior person. Yeah, and we treat that person as a senior person. Everyone kind of gets the sense that they’re a person to go to. 

Greg Alexander [00:06:28] Yeah, that’s really interesting. I hadn’t heard that example in this use case, and I like it quite a bit. So the thinking was was pretty basic. You couldn’t afford a full time person, but you wanted to – you wanted somebody to play that role because it was that important to you. Now I’m assuming that those dollars that you’re investing in, that part time sales manager are, I mean, there’s no billable hours to place against that. So that’s a true investment. Is that correct? 

Ken Yager [00:06:57] That’s exactly right. So it needs to pay for itself. And so those people that we’ve given sales duties to need to find deals and convert. Yeah. 

Investment courage

Greg Alexander [00:07:06] And. I’m curious as to how you had the courage to do that, sometimes when faced with the decision I can, I can pull money out of the business and stick it in the front pocket of my jeans, or I can invest it in a part time sales manager. It requires courage to make the investments so, so think back to when you didn’t have the part time sales manager and you made the decision to do it. What? What was your decision making process and how did you finally say, screw it, I’m going to make this happen? 

Ken Yager [00:07:36] This is a classic. I was feeling pain. I was at a pain point, and it was that the sales were, you know, as much as I knew, we had to build a sales force. I knew I couldn’t put all the pennies and dollars into it. I was watching it literally slip through my fingers, trying to manage it myself. And so I said, nNo, no, this task has to be broken off to someone else or I’m never going to get there. And so that’s – that pain started and it kept growing and I finally listened to it one day. 

Greg Alexander [00:08:05] That’s excellent. OK. Part of that pain, of course, is in most process firms. They don’t have a dedicated sales team at this stage. They’ll have kind of producer types who also happen to sell. And that time management, which is an item that you brought up that I want to dive into now a little bit in more depth, which is OK, o I have X amount of hours. I’m trying to get to a utility utilization target. Let’s just for today, say at 75 percent that I need to build myself out at – that remaining 25 percent, that non billable time. Some portion of that needs to be invested back into these relationships. Was it that formulaic for you? And are you measuring time that precisely or is it more guidelines, gut instinct? 

Ken Yager [00:08:54] The precise side of it was a bit of gut, which is to say, I’m going to trust you to know how to apply your time. But we sell people like we would like you to be will be able to build 30 hours a week. We want you to dedicate 10 hours a week to our call admin and team meetings and stuff. We can’t build a clients for training and things like that. 

And when you’re at full capacity, I want to see you at 10 hours of marketing a week, orup to, trying to do research or trying to talk to people. And if you just give him that, that sense of the precision of like, Oh, I can now look at my calendar and say, Oh, 10 hours, where do I put the 10 hours in? Or Coach teaches them how to put that on their calendar. So it’s actually there when they show up to that time slot in their – in their week. And then we also kind of build a model that shows them if you put – if you make so many touches, it converts eventually to so many leads to so many deals when you got to go back to those hours you had available. And so they kind of can do the math off of that, it helps. Yeah. 

Allocating for relationships

Greg Alexander [00:09:54] Listen, I absolutely love what you’re doing. Sometimes we forget that non billable hours is a budget.. When I talk to members, sometimes they say, Well, I don’t have any market – I don’t have a marketing budget. I suggest you do. You’re already spending money on it right now and you just don’t know it. 

So a portion of people’s non billable time is going towards developing these relationships. Do you know what that portion is? And can you track the fact that it’s consistently happening and is equality? So in your scenario, you’ve compartment – compartmentalized everybody’s time, you’re directing the hours in quantity and quality, and you’re providing them a coach to make it happen. That’s absolutely fantastic. It’s a lot for us to learn today on that example alone. 

Sometimes this is a tough question to answer, but I’ll ask it anyways, because as many things that can contribute, but that approach that you’re using. What have been the results? Can you point to anything specifically? 

Ken Yager [00:10:54] Yes. I’d say four years ago, so right about that five year mark, I was 100 percent of our sales. And now about 25 to 30 percent of our sales.. So it’s starting to happen, and a lot of that group is loaded in very late. Unfortunately for us, came in during COVID, which had a couple of twists and turns for our team, our team in our industry. So some of those people really haven’t even had to flourish yet. So a lot of investment at this moment that we’re waiting to kind of see what happens. I think it’s going to break out pretty nicely here the next year. 

Greg Alexander [00:11:23] So congratulations on that. I mean, the fact that you’re cutting it in half. So the business continues to grow, but your personal selling efforts have been cut in half, which is great because some day if you want to retire and sell your firm down the road, you’re going to have to prove to a potential acquirer that you’re not required in order to generate revenue. There’s other people in the company that are doing it, and they’re doing it well. And because you’re tracking it in the way that you’re tracking it, you’ll precisely be able to say to them, just like you did to me – Hey, at this date, here’s what happened. Here’s a before and after results. Do you ever foresee in the future you representing zero percent? 

Ken Yager [00:12:00] Oh yes, I have a stated mission that I aim to get fired from marketing projects and admin at various stages in the -My career, so I’m working very hard getting fired, I –

Getting conulstants into sales 

Greg Alexander [00:12:12] those sound like your three favorite activities. Yeah, that’s funny. That’s fantastic. One  – one last question for you. Sometimes consultants. They don’t like the word sales. They’re slightly more willing to accept the term marketing. But when they when they get asked to do this type of activity I’ve seen in some scenarios, I don’t want to say they think they’re above it, but they don’t think it’s part of their job and their job is to execute the work once it’s been sold. Have you run into that and do you have any advice for those that are listening on how to deal with that? 

Ken Yager [00:12:48] Two pieces that come to mind. One, we actually go even further than networking and marketing. We talk about networking and just telling your  -we’re talking about telling your friends about what you do, which is a very it kind of simplifies it for construction and for people who are more professional service kind of driven. 

And we also talk about instead of territories, talk about tribes. So it just your friends, the people that you like and be with them and try to make it as natural as possible. And – and then the last it is…. I’m trying to think. Pardon me, choking on my words here. 

The other part is some people don’t make it, you’re – you’re really not going to turn it. Here’s the first thing. You’re not going to turn someone who isn’t totally motivated to sell into, you know, into a selling machine.  Maybe over time, a long time, maybe their careers, their lives change. We’ve had one or two of those moments. Well, you’re talking about changing someone 15, 20 percent. So if they’re not going to do it, don’t torture themselves or yourself. 


Greg Alexander [00:13:53] Yeah, that’s good advice. I love progressive past marketing networking, and I love moving from territories to tribes. That makes it approachable for the people that we just described there. It makes it more doable for them. All right, Ken, we’re running out of time here. But listen, that was awesome. I mean, you shared some brand new insights for us. Not surprised that you’re having as much success as you are. I appreciate you being a member and making a contribution today. 

Ken Yager [00:14:21] Thank you, Greg, for the time today and I enjoy being a part of Collective 54. It’s been a really great ride. Greg Alexander [00:14:26] Great. OK, for those that are listening, if you want to learn more about this topic, business development during the scale, stage or others like it. Pick up a copy of the book The Boutique How to Start, Scale and Sell a professional services firm, which I’m proud to say, just hit number one on Amazon in our little niche. And if you want to meet great people, I can consider joining our mastermind community to find us a collective54.com. Thanks again. Take care!