Episode 114 – How the Founder of a Marketing Agency Dealt with Key Employee Risk – Member Case by Kimberly Kraemer

Key employee risk is a very real threat to founders of boutique professional services firms. Small, people driven businesses are overly dependent on key employees. If a key employee resigns, the pain inflicted on the owner is intense, and the financial impact on the income statement is large.  On this episode, Kimberly Kraemer, CEO at Waterhouse Brands, shares how she suffered the loss of a key employee and how she survived it. In addition, hear how Kim re-engineered her firm to prevent this from ever happening again.  

TRANSCRIPT

Greg Alexander [00:00:15] Welcome to the Preserve podcast with Collective 54, a podcast for leaders of thriving boutique professional services firms. For those that might not be familiar with us, Collective 54 is the first mastermind community dedicated entirely to the needs of this unique group. Folks at a leading boutique processor firms. My name is Greg Alexander. I’m the founder and I will be your host today on this episode. I hope to make you aware of a really big risk. And that risk is called key employee risk. And simply stated, what that means is, as a small service firm, we only have X number of employees, so each employee’s contribution is very important. However, we also probably have the 8020 rule, which would which means 80% of the value, so to speak, is generated by 20% of the people. And sometimes one of those great people walks right out the front door. And when that happens, it can have a disproportional effect on a small firm just because the law of numbers would say so. Now, there’s lots of things we can do to mitigate key employee risk, and that’s what we to talk about today. We’ve got a fantastic role model, someone who lived through this and is thriving as a result of it, which is somewhat counterintuitive, but that’s why she was chosen for the show. Her name is Kim Cramer. Kim, it’s great to see you. Thanks for being here. And please introduce yourself. 

Kimberly Kraemer [00:01:45] Hi, Greg. Thank you. And thanks, everyone in the collective 54 community. I certainly have learned a lot from watching everyone else describe the journey they’ve been on. And fortunately for me, Collective 54 helped me navigate my key man risk journey. So a little bit about myself. I’m Kim Cramer, founder and CEO of a boutique firm called Waterhouse Brands. We were formed in 2017 and our focus is on helping life sciences companies build, define and build their corporate and their employer brands. We launched based on what I saw as a key gap in the market, which was for a brand communications firm that could really do more than just come up with a logo and an identity and a website. It was really about telling a company scientific story in a way that put their most valuable asset, which is their employees at the center. Science is complicated. We’ve spent a lot of time and helped these companies really translate that science into English that Wall Street can understand. And what we found is that so many companies just really focus on investors and they focus on partners and they focus on patients, right. All the players in the health ecosystem. But the last in the bottom on their list was employees. And so we wanted to come up with a solution based on a methodology that we had created called ALIGN, that help these companies feature their employees and build a culture that enabled them to go not just from great science and innovation and smart team, but have a culture that helped them become a successful well executing business. And so that was the genesis of Waterhouse Brands and really put my close to 30 years of experience on the corporate and agency side in communications and brand marketing in an industry that I’ve basically grown up with love, biotechnology, put it all together and put it to work. 

Greg Alexander [00:04:01] Well, very good. That was an outstanding description, I can tell you. Very good at your craft. I have a clear definition of of who you serve and what you do and how you do it and how you do it differently. So that was really, really good. All right. So I’m going to ask you to tell us a story. I understand that you suffered from key employee risk, and I’d love to hear, you know, what happened. You know, to the extent that you’re willing to share it and and how you dealt with it and the lessons learned along the way. 

Kimberly Kraemer [00:04:33] Sure. Well, like many start up boutique consulting firms are really growth strategy and build the team strategy was based on tapping our network. It was about who did we know, who had skills and experiences that could help us take our services and bring it into defined categories. In terms of employer brand, having a competency there in terms of digital brand and activation. And so we put together this team based on our network and. One of those people was more of an operations person. So we if you follow the EOS methodology like we’ve been trying to, you know, there’s a visionary and that was kind of the role I serve, you know, that there’s an integrator and my co-founder who is more of a linear thinker and kind of get stuff done. She really served that role in helping us build out our client services competencies. And we had more of an h.r. Person who was really helping to spin up employer brand. And then we had the manager of operations who was more of a jack of all trades person, but she was so competent and so efficient that I just let her do everything from financials to our h.r. operations. So onboarding off porting manuals, benefits comp, all of the different aspects of a business that in the earliest of stages you’re trying to fill those boxes. So that worked well for a while. We went from 2017 where we were consultants to 2019, making the decision to scale smart. So every year I have a theme and scale Smart was converting from independent contractors to FTE eyes, and she took care of all of that. 2020 Just as we coincided with the pandemic, we had a theme of play bigger, and that was really about owning and amplifying what made us unique in our industry and in our as a service provider. And we were fortunate that we were able to really expand our our client base. And with everyone working from home, you know, we were very well utilized. We were building we had not much else to do but work and drink in our off hours. And there weren’t many of. That’s right. So. Fast forward, we we had a banner year in 2020. We grew our revenue by something crazy like 38% top line growth. Wow. And profitability was strong, too. And then we got out a little over our skis. I would say that the the there were tensions in the system in all levels of our organization. Our ops person felt like she should be the ceo. Our h.r. Person didn’t feel like she really wanted to work on the business and in the business, but we didn’t need a full time h.r. Person. So we were starting to just kind of I think we were all going crazy from the pandemic, frankly. Yeah. But i’ll get to this key man risk and what happened in just a moment. In 2021. Our year of going from play bigger. Hey, we did it. We added all these clients to Now let’s level up, let’s go to scale. Let’s figure out how to hire some more people to help increase our capacity and service clients. Well, we made some really dumb mistakes in 2021. We hired, I’d say, four people, five people that were experienced, but they weren’t right for the role. We didn’t know what the roles should be. And as a result, as the wheels were falling off the boss at a leadership team level and we were hiring more mid-level manager people and people that do the work. It wasn’t working. There was culture. There were the wrong people for the wrong for the roles. And so we had to take a giant step back. We let go of three key people, including the head of h.r. Who was also working on the business, and that had a devastating ripple effect. And then things really came to a head with the ups person and we parted ways and we let another senior person go who just wasn’t able to hunt. They were great at doing one thing and one thing well, and that was it. But that wasn’t the role that we needed. So long story short, as this was going on at a leadership level, culturally, the the more the worker level, there was a lot of negativity, toxicity and drama. So we had to really press the reset button hard. And 2022 became all about the theme of right sizing. And so I’m happy to report that although we had common risk in these two several departures, but the h.r. And ops person departed. What happened to me was that i ended up picking up the slack, me and my co-founder, so i would have given myself a b at best on a good day of how I can do operations. It’s just wasn’t really what I was born to do. So I’d say that going through this transition, we decided we needed to diversify. We hired an outsourced finance firm which also had a bookkeeping arm. We professionalized our h.r. Capabilities by hiring a outsourced h.r. Business partner, and we got a great employment law firm to help us structure things correctly from the get go. And so now we’re in the mode of coming off of a year of we’re not going to focus on growth, although i’m happy to report that even with not focusing on growth and while bumbling along through the year doing h.r. And ops on my own with my co-founder, we had achieved 20% topline revenue growth. We were pretty good ability by 3%, an additional 3%. And we had made the decision by the end of the year to hire in-house a director of finance and operations. And lo and behold, today is his first day. And I think he is an example of the purposeful process that we put in place to make sure we knew exactly what the role would be, exactly what the qualifications and the phenotype and experience should be, and had worked with a recruiter to help us. Scour the universe of who’s good and get the right fit. Not just from a skills and capability standpoint, but from a culture standpoint. So the jury’s out. But in this key man risk, how do I mitigate this in the future? I’m going to keep our outsource resources. And so I have that strategic advisor. But he will now be the point person for H.R. operations, because he also, in addition to being a financing accounting person, has a advanced degree in organizational development, and he comes from a digital agency. So I don’t have to teach him the agency business, which is great. 

Greg Alexander [00:12:39] He’s a keeper. That’s a rare combination of skills. 

Kimberly Kraemer [00:12:43] So I don’t know. I think that may have been too long of a story. No, no. 

Greg Alexander [00:12:46] No, no. You kidding me? That was absolutely fantastic. So many things that you said in the journey. They’re going to resonate with our members. They’re going to have all kinds of questions on the Friday Q&A that they’ll be able to have with you. The main thing that I wanted to highlight and underline and Ken story is that this is what happens, right? I mean, rapid growth. And Kim, who is obviously a fantastic practitioner at her craft. And when you when it when key people leave the firm, next thing you know, you’re not practicing your craft. You’re working on all kinds of other stuff, finance, H.R. ops. And guess what? She was giving herself a B if I asked you. Kim, we having a good time while that was happening, you probably would have said, I want to jump out the window. Right. It’s just not fun. Not only is it is it painful in terms of the business and the drama and, you know, the toxicity that you talked about personally, you just not having a good time and you scratching your head saying, hey, why am I doing this? I mean, he had a 30 year career. You probably don’t need to do that. So you’re doing this for reasons beyond money, etc.. And that’s what happened. So the the solution that you talked about, which is strategic outsourcing, you know, certain functions, I think is a great solution. And there’s all kinds of high quality providers out there, many of which are in the collective that you can rent, if you will. And because you now hiring a vendor as opposed to employee, the vendor has multiple employees, so you’ve diversified your risk right there. It’s a firm, not a person. The other thing that I would I would mention and Kim, I want to talk to you about this, is that, you know, I just wrote an entire book on this very subject. It’s called The Founder Bottleneck How to Scale Yourself. And it talks about how key men risk in the role of founder. I mean, if something, God forbid, happened to Kim, what would happen in water house brands probably wouldn’t be good. And you have to build a succession plan for yourself, not only to protect the business in the event of some tragic outcome, but also eventually. There’s other things you’re going to want to do with your life. Let’s say you want to sell the firm someday. Well, if the firm is completely dependent on Kim, she can’t sell it. Let’s say she wants to become chairperson instead of CEO or managing partner and work on visionary items as opposed to growing the day to day. Then someone’s going to be able to do what she can do and what a co-founder can do as well as she can do it so she can delegate and elevate to use the U.S. terminology. So succession planning is so mission critical for the boutique service firm. And it’s one of those things, unfortunately, that you can kind of kick the can down the road because it’s you know, it’s not a 90 day rock. You know, it’s it’s actually a multi-year journey to pull off a real succession plan. So it’s easy to just say, I’ll get to it someday, and then all of a sudden one of your key employee quits and you’re like, Oh my gosh, like, I need to get to that now. Or not Only is the business going to suffer, although in Kim’s case, it actually performed quite well during that environment. But you’re going to be miserable in your job. You’re going to have to start doing things in the weeds that you don’t want to do. So, Kim, have you thought about succession planning? I know that’s a big subject and probably out of scope for today’s call and we’ll talk about it more on Friday. But has this torch anything regarding succession planning 100%? 

Kimberly Kraemer [00:16:07] I do think that. I mean, you talk a lot, Greg, about the here being the hero and the ego, right, that comes with as a founder or a leader, that nobody can do things as good as I can. So I’m just going to do that. Right. So I’m past that. I would love to have great people that can do the things that I do and do them better. Like everything you talk about on your Friday calls, Greg, and that you’ve written about in the boutique and in the Founders Bottleneck, so resonates with me. So I am in the process right now working with our HBP on succession planning and really thinking about. So this year, our whole theme is about synergy rising, synergy rising our teams capabilities. We have a diverse mix of people with marketing and communications and digital and design expertise, but it’s how can we work together smarter and better and how can we as a group look at the kind of work we’re doing, the kind of client engagements we take on and think about where the gaps in the organization are and not only how can we fill the gaps, but how can we strengthen the the areas where we as individuals all perform well so that we have some relief and some redundancy. Otherwise, we’ll never be able to scale. And we know. 

Greg Alexander [00:17:34] Yeah, exactly. Well said. Okay. We’re at our a time window here and I want to save, you know, this rich conversation for the Friday Q&A session. But, Kim, you’re a joy to talk to. I’m not surprised that your firm is doing so well. Your generous spirit. That story was absolutely fantastic. On behalf of all the members, thank you for contributing and giving back and being here today. 

Kimberly Kraemer [00:17:55] Thank you, Greg, for doing the work that you do. You have helped so many entrepreneurs and founders, and I’m really blessed to be part of this community. So thank you. 

Greg Alexander [00:18:03] Okay, great. All right. Let me give the audience members some calls to action here. Okay. So if you’re a member and you’re running on EOC, which we fully endorse, we run off collective ITV4 in the U.S. We just wrote a U.S. collective 54 integration plan that might be helpful. For example, you know, EOC advocates are running your business off a scorecard, but what should the metrics be? You know, professional services metrics are very different. What should the benchmarks be? We have the benchmarking database, etc.. So go to the resource center and download the EOC Collective 54 integration plan. That’s one thing. Secondly, if you want to, you know, start implementing some of the concepts and the final bottleneck and succession planning, there’s a companion course tied to the book that should be out by the time this recording gets released. There’s a tool in there called Roles and Responsibilities. I highly recommend you download that and get familiar with it. So those are a couple of things that you can do as a member. If you’re not a member, your calls to action are to become a member. Go to collective 54 dot com and fill out the contact us form and a representative will get in contact with you. If you’re not quite ready to join, you can subscribe to collect the 54 insights. You get three things every week on Monday, a blog on Wednesday a podcast an on Friday, a a chart that talks about some of this benchmarking data. All right. Boy, that was a lot in 20 minutes. I’m exhausted. I need a break. But for those listening, thanks for tuning in every week. And thanks for being here. Until next time, we wish you the best of luck as you try to grow, scale and sell your firm someday.

Episode 88 – How a Founder of a Training Firm Scaled his Firm by Scaling Himself – Member Case with Tom Abbott

Scaling a boutique takes a team but firms are often started by a single founder. On this episode, Tom Abbott, CEO and Co-Founder of SOCO Sales Training, shares how he transitioned from being involved in every aspect of the business to focusing on team development. 

TRANSCRIPT

Greg Alexander [00:00:15] Welcome to the Boutique with Collective 54, a podcast for founders and leaders of boutique professional services firms. For those that aren’t familiar with us, Collective 54 is the first mastermind community to help you grow, scale and exit your firm bigger and faster. My name is Greg Alexander. I’m the founder and I’ll be your host today. And on this episode, we’re going to discuss how a founder of a boutique processor firm is able to scale the firm by replicating himself in an executive leadership team. This is a really fascinating topic because we’re combining a couple of different chapters from our book, The Boutique, and we’ve got a great role model with us today. His name is Tom Abbott, and Tom is in the throes of this as we speak. And he’s had the courage to attempt to do this. And we’d love to hear his his story. So. So, Tom, welcome to the show. And and if you wouldn’t mind, please give the audience a proper introduction. 

Tom Abbott [00:01:20] Hey, thanks for that, Greg. Yeah, a real pleasure to be here. Tom Abbott here, co-founder and CEO of So called Sales Training. We help companies to optimize their sales performance, so we do that through virtual instructor led training, through webinars and through our e-learning platform called SOCO Academy. So anything about sales, we help B2B companies particularly to optimize their performance. 

Greg Alexander [00:01:44] Okay. Very good. Okay. So let me set this up a little bit. So sometimes founders and co-founders like Tom suffer from what I call the hero syndrome. And the hero syndrome is that we as human beings, we love to feel needed. We love to feel like the hero. We have our personal identity wrapped up in the firm, and it feels good. We get validated when when clients say, Hey, you have to be in the key meeting, or when employees come to you all the time with major decisions that get made. And this insecurity can get in the way of scaling a firm. And the fix here, if your aspiration is to scale beyond a lifestyle business, is to build a firm that is not dependent on you, a firm that can run without you. And this requires, you know, being able to kind of check your ego, so to speak, and surround yourself with an executive leadership team that can do what you can do as well as you can do it. And if you’re able to do that, you’re you’re able to overcome the founder bottleneck and scale yourself by replicating yourself and others. And this is a big stumbling block for many. So so, Tom, as I understand it, this was once a stumbling block for you. And it’s either no longer or it’s in the process and partially no longer a stumbling block. So would you would you share with us kind of where you are in your journey and how you first became aware that maybe you had this problem and maybe what your first steps were, etc.? 

Tom Abbott [00:03:18] Wow. Okay, so there’s a lot to that question. The first the first part is it’s always a work in progress. I think the first key is realizing that you suffer from hero syndrome. And that’s the first part is the awareness. And then sort of realizing is this is this working for me? Right? Is this really helpful? Does this help me grow the business? Do I feel like a hero that I can swoop in and save the day, but at the expense of doing other things like actually growing the business and thinking about strategy and expanding and doing the kind of, you know, boss stuff. So, you know, typically, you know, that’s always a challenge. But I came to that realization, you know, probably about three years ago, I imagine, where it just became really apparent that this this company won’t grow beyond me if I don’t kind of get out of my own way. So the first step for me was to say, look, I’ve got to stop doing sales and I’m awesome at sales. So that was very difficult and I’ve got to stop delivering training programs and I’m a great facilitator and trainer, so that’s really hard, you know, you know, I’m still available for keynotes for companies still engaging to come in and do the big, you know, motivational rah rah as a thought leader. But when it comes to the training for a half day or one day or a two day program, we’ve done a really good job of of of getting freelance trainers certified through me and our training program, which I can talk about later to deliver that on our behalf. And that’s just been honestly a game changer because the training is happening all over the region, all over the world. Sometimes when I’m asleep, it’s just it’s just been a game changer. All right. 

Greg Alexander [00:04:56] So I want to I want to probe in a little bit because you are great at sales and you are great at facilitating. But one of the reasons why you’re great at both is because you love it. So I think founders don’t do what you did because they they love what they do and they don’t want to. Doing what they love doing. So how did you reconcile the conflict between, Hey, I can go out and sell the next client, which I love doing, that I get energy from it it feels good with. Yeah, but that’s in the way of me trying to scale my firm. Like, how did how did you how did you put those two things together? 

Tom Abbott [00:05:35] I think what I did, Greg, was I realized that there were other things that I also love to do. So I love to train. But then I could change my love for training sales teams to training my own sales team. So I can I can do that. I can change my love for, you know, sales for well, let me let me coach my sales team and then they can bring me in for some deals. On some cases, if there is, you know, three or four C-suite people on a call, they’re like, hey, Tom, if we get you on this call, you know, you sprinkle a little founder’s magic 3 minutes. That’s all I need from your time in and out. And you’re good. That’s fine, because then I can still have the team do the grunt work, the follow up to put the proposal together, to send the brochures, to answer the questions, to schedule meetings, all of that stuff that I should not be doing. Because something I realized a long time ago is I was the most expensive trainer on the planet. I was the most expensive salesperson on the planet, probably the most expensive data entry clerk on the planet, like everything we’re doing as founders. And I realized a few years ago, I always ask myself, Is this making me money? And if the answer is No, this isn’t making me money, then I’ve got to stop doing it and get someone who’s, you know, cheaper to do it for me. Yeah. 

Greg Alexander [00:06:49] One of the primary, if not the primary reason why boutiques don’t scale is they have senior people doing junior work, which is what you were just talking about, because in the most senior person in the firm is the founder who happens to be the most expensive. So if you’re doing something that a junior person can do, by definition, you’re eroding all your margin. And that’s a great realization and a great reminder. So I love your answer around how you didn’t sacrifice job satisfaction to make this happen. You just redeployed your love in other areas that lended itself to scale. For example, instead of training clients, train your own staff. That’s a great example. What would you say to founders who say this to me all the time? And it’s somewhat of a religious battle between me and them at the moment that says, Well, I’m special what I do, nobody else can do. So it’s impossible for me to replicate myself. Junior people can’t do X, Y, Z. What do you say to that? 

Tom Abbott [00:07:46] Well, the first thing I say is two things. One, I totally get that because I struggle with that. And you’ve got to get over yourself, because if no one’s going to be as great as you and I’ve realized that I feel, you know, and maybe, maybe we’re wrong, okay. Founders maybe were wrong. Okay. There’s a slight possibility that maybe we’re not as amazing as we think we are. However, we’ve all taken our businesses to a certain point, which means we’re great at a lot of things. But the point is, and I’ve said this to people, my 80% in front of a classroom in a workshop selling my 80% is probably most people’s hundred. Right? So if you can get someone who’s 80% of what you’re able to deliver, that’s pretty darn good. So do you want to have 100% of a small piece of the pie or get someone who’s 80% but you’re able to scale? So if I can get, you know, three salespeople who are 80% my level, that’s still better than me at 100%. There’s no comparison. If I can get three, four or five, six trainers around the region delivering training at 80% of what Tom Abbot would normally do, that’s fine. Now, a good way to solve that problem and we started doing this this year is we charge the same rates for our training across the board with a so-called certified sales trainer. But if they’re insistent on having me hey, Tom, you know, you worked with us last year. We’d love to have you back. I’m happy to do it. It’s at 50% more than our usual rate. 

Greg Alexander [00:09:22] Wow. 

Tom Abbott [00:09:23] Yeah. And I’ve had some people take me up on it, which is great. Okay, I’ll get out of bed for an extra 50%, like, why not? Yeah, you know, because I still love to do it. So don’t get me wrong, all the founders out there, we still love to do what we do. We’re still great at it. But we have to realize that if we want to scale, we need to get more people on the team doing what we do. And look, there’s there’s no magic. You can document this. I can talk about that, too. You can document the process. You can train people to do it. So let’s get out of our own way and leave the ego at the door. It can be done. But in the event that, you know, people are like, We really insist on having you, the answer is yes. And here is what the investment is. Take it or leave it. Yeah. 

Greg Alexander [00:10:05] Which is a great way to quantify it in the eyes of the customer. And some people will say, you know what, time, yeah, you are worth it. So here’s the premium. And some people will say, okay, you know, I’m okay with. You’re a certified person and that gets you out of it gracefully. Right. It’s a it’s a really excellent example of that. And 50% is a big number. Okay. So here so I’m going to play the role of of these. 

Tom Abbott [00:10:24] And let me tell you, I a 50% is a big number, but it has to be big because I played around with that. And if it’s too close to the regular rate, they’ll just pay that all the time. And then you will never get out of doing that delivery ever. 

Greg Alexander [00:10:37] Okay. So here’s the next objection that when you speak to our members in the future about this subject, this is what you’re going to hear. They’re going to say, okay, I get it. However, I’m time starved. So the time it takes for me to teach somebody to do what I do as well as I do, it just takes forever. I can just do it myself in half the time. So I’m going to scale that way. What do you say to that? 

Tom Abbott [00:11:02] I say that’s actually going to take a really long time. And the reality is the quickest way to scale. Get someone to follow. You want a sales call? The quickest, easiest thing to do. You’re already doing it. Get someone to shadow. You want to call, get them to follow you on a sales call. That’s number one. Number two, hit the record button on Zoom. Super easy. That doesn’t take any time. You can. Then what we’ve done is we’ve recorded all of my sales calls over the last two years. And look, we’ve been in COVID for so long. If you haven’t been recording your Zoom sales calls, you’ve missed out on a tremendous opportunity to start this learning bank. So it’s a lot easier than you think. So we’ve got literally dozens to hundreds of different sales calls that we label and tag. Oh, this was an inbound prospect. This was a discovery call. This was a follow up call. This had multiple stakeholders, you know, whatever. This was a follow up call. So you can tag those. And then when you’re onboarding your reps, you just send them the link. Hey, watch this, watch this, watch this. So it’s not as hard as we think. And then you just start documenting. So you’ll notice that with your emails that you send out, you’re probably doing your own kind of a copy paste almost every time. So it’s just a matter of, you know, you save those, you put them in a folder, you copy paste, he put those on on a note, you put it in Dropbox or put it on Google Drive before you know it. Before you know it, you’ve got the makings of a sales playbook. It’s not as easy. It’s not as hard as we think. And you could be doing it right now and you don’t even know it. 

Greg Alexander [00:12:29] A lot of our members have handled this issue in the sales function, meaning other people are now selling work on their behalf. Most of them have done that because they’re not like you. They don’t enjoy selling. You know, if I’m a management consultant that specializes in cybersecurity, I can geek out about all the possible hacks that I might deal with. But I don’t want to talk to a client and sell it. So they they delegated that just out of the fact that they didn’t enjoy doing it where they really get nervous about delivering the work. So a client hires me to go to do X, Y, Z. I’m supposed to be an expert with charging them a lot of money, and then I’m going to trust somebody else to deliver the work. It scares them. So how have you overcome that? 

Tom Abbott [00:13:12] Well, there’s a couple of ways. The first thing we do is we we certify all of our facilitator. So how do we do that? One is, you know, knowledge. So we’ve got testing. So I’ve written two books on sales, for example. So we make sure that they read the books, they watch all of our videos and so called Academy, which is our e-learning platform, and then we actually test them on content. Are you a sales expert? Are you a subject matter expert? I can’t teach you to do that. I don’t have time for that. So are you competent and confident in training sales? Do you know your stuff? That’s number one. Then number two is the the skill of actually facilitation. So that’s what we need in our business. Number one is you’ve got to have the sales acumen and knowledge. But the second is you need the delivery skills, the so-called platform skills. Can you engage an audience? Are you good, coach? Do you know how to answer tough questions? Can you put people in breakout rooms and facilitate discussion and role plays? So that’s all part of my world in the training world. So preferably we get people that have had some certification in training. They’ve gone through a training program. They understand about curriculum development or they are or were an internal trainer within a large company. So they’ve got their chops. Having done that, I don’t have to teach them how to do that. So we would test them. So test them in knowledge, which is a written test, some multiple choice, some, you know, short answer as well as delivery. So we get them to actually deliver a sample session with our team and we recorded on Zoom and then internally we look at it and give them feedback so we can see them in action if they’ve got a demo video even before they come to the interview process. Even better. So that’s how we can guarantee that, okay, we’ve got good people. Then they’ll work with me personally and I will train them. Okay, so this is how I handle this situation. This is how we do it here at SOCO. So there’s you as a sales trainer, and then there’s how do we do it here at SOCO? So then we just have to be able to guarantee to our customers that the experience will be the same. So a lot of people think that it’s about the trainer and in a sense it does have a lot to do with the trainer for sure. However, what most of our customers want is a consistent framework or a consistent methodology for all of their sales teams around the region or around the world. We’re able to do that through the certification program. So that’s that’s been really helpful for us. 

Greg Alexander [00:15:32] Okay. And then the last objection I get sometimes is, hey, if I hire these people to do what I do, I got to pay them. I’d rather just put the money in the bank account and not pay anybody to do this. So what do you say to that? 

Tom Abbott [00:15:46] I mean, you can do that. But again, it’s you know, do you want just like a mom and pop, you know, like a hobby business or what? But do you want to grow? Right. So if you actually want to grow and you want more business, you have to find a way to meet the needs of customers. And there’s just not enough hours in the day. I know that. There’s just not enough hours in the day to to service everybody. Now, maybe you’re happy just having a lifestyle business and maybe say, look, all I want to do is this many hours and and that’s fine. But if you actually have aspirations of, you know, reaching as many people as possible, like, you know, I have a goal. I don’t want anybody on the planet to lose a sale because they can’t sell. That’s that’s my mission. So I want to reach as many humans on this planet as possible. Tom Abbott can’t do it all by himself now. It took me about eight years to realize that, but I can’t do it all by myself. So I got to work with people. Yeah. So and it’s very hard when you feel like you’re really good to actually start bringing people on because there’s a danger in going, Yeah, but she’s not exactly like me or I wouldn’t have done it that way. That’s your biggest problem right there? Yeah, maybe they do it their own way, but following a framework, if that makes any sense, kind of, you know, you’ve got some things you need to do, but you do it your own way. You focus on the what and the why and let them focus on on the how in the sense. And and, you know, that’s just going to help you grow. You’ve just got to build that team and just trust, trust in your process. So what I’ve done, Greg, is I’ve been able to say, look, I’m going to take my energy away from sales. I’m going to take my energy away from training and put it towards training my team and becoming a leader and developing them. And I see my number one role as a CEO is to step up and be a CEO. Yeah. And run the company the way a CEO would. Yeah. Get out of my own way. 

Greg Alexander [00:17:36] Well, listen, you have a tremendous amount of self-awareness. You know, being an entrepreneur is a journey. Right. And you’ve been on it for eight years, and you probably didn’t know what you know now back then. And you now know. And it’s just a wonderful pleasure to have you in the membership because of your level of self-awareness, your humility, your modesty, because you’ve had a tremendous amount of success. And just on behalf of the membership, we’re up at our time window here, but I just wanted to thank you for your contribution. You know, the way the collective works is we’ve got to contribute to the collective body of knowledge, and you’ve just made a great contribution. So thanks, Tom. 

Tom Abbott [00:18:11] Hey, my pleasure. And thank you, Greg. I’ve gotten a lot from my membership in Collective 54, and I was just thrilled to be invited on the podcast to kind of give back because I’ve gained a lot already. So thanks to you. 

Greg Alexander [00:18:22] Okay, fantastic. And for those that are interested in this topic and those like it, you can pick up a copy of our book, The Boutique How to Start Scale and Sell a Professional Services Firm. And if you’re interested in joining our mastermind community and meeting great people like Tom, check us out at collective54.com. Thanks again. Take care.